Why Israel's President and Mossad At ASIO - Shoebridge Demands Answers In Senate Estimates

A tense Senate Estimates hearing has put a rare visit to Australia's intelligence headquarters under scrutiny.

Greens Senator David Shoebridge questioned ASIO officials about Israeli President Isaac Herzog's visit to the Ben Chifley building in Canberra, where he met with ASIO's Director General of Security and counterterrorism teams.

Shoebridge repeatedly pressed officials over who accompanied Herzog, whether Israeli intelligence personnel were present and what was discussed during the visit. ASIO officials declined to provide specific details, citing security and intelligence sensitivities.

The Senator also raised previous controversies involving Israeli intelligence operations and Australian security, asking whether Israel should be considered a security risk to Australia.

One of the most striking moments came when an ASIO Deputy Director General acknowledged that, to his recollection, he was not aware of another foreign head of state being invited to ASIO headquarters.

The hearing highlights the tension between intelligence cooperation, national security and parliamentary transparency.

#DavidShoebridge #ASIO #IsaacHerzog #Israel #Australia #Mossad #AustralianSenate #SenateEstimates

0:00
0 seconds
My question is fairly simple. Did President Herzog come to an AIO building with members of Mossad?
0:09
9 seconds
Um, well, thanks J. Um, thanks for your attendance today, Deputy Director.
0:15
15 seconds
Um, Miss Gilmore, were you present when the Israeli president Herzog visited the AIO offices?
0:26
26 seconds
Uh, I wasn't sending.
0:28
28 seconds
Okay. Um, who was present? Um, well, sorry, which offices
0:36
36 seconds
did uh or which office did President Herzog visit?
0:40
40 seconds
I'm happy to take that question. Um, uh, the president did vis visit the Ben Chiffley building um in Canra. Um,
0:50
50 seconds
intelligence agencies including Azio do maintain strong and enduring relationships with um, a range of our
0:56
56 seconds
foreign partners. Um the president met with the director general of security and was also briefed by our counterterrorism teams on their work following the Bondi attack.
1:07
1 minute, 7 seconds
Um were you there? I was not. So met with the director general? Yes.
1:14
1 minute, 14 seconds
And then also who else?
1:16
1 minute, 16 seconds
Uh some members of our counterterrorism teams.
1:20
1 minute, 20 seconds
Um was there anyone else present? Uh, I wasn't there, so I couldn't tell you exactly who was present at any particular time.
1:31
1 minute, 31 seconds
Well, I'm asking at at any time throughout the currency of the the president's visit to the Ben Shiffley building.
1:38
1 minute, 38 seconds
I'm not aware of um not aware of the individuals that were present and and neither would I be able to disclose that. Um, for matters.
1:45
1 minute, 45 seconds
Were there any individuals who were not members of AIO present apart from President Herzog and members of President Herzog's entourage? I'm not aware.
1:55
1 minute, 55 seconds
You Well, will you take it on notice? Yes, I'm happy to take that.
1:58
1 minute, 58 seconds
Can you take it on notice if um not to identify the individuals, but to identify the positions of the people who were present?
2:05
2 minutes, 5 seconds
Um I'm happy to take that on notice to see what we can provide you with, Senator.
2:09
2 minutes, 9 seconds
And if there was anybody who wasn't a member of AIO to identify them by name and um and position,
2:17
2 minutes, 17 seconds
I'm happy to take on notice to see what we can provide.
2:20
2 minutes, 20 seconds
How long did the meeting go for? Uh I'm not aware of the the exact um period of time.
2:26
2 minutes, 26 seconds
Were there any family members present? Family members of Azio.
2:31
2 minutes, 31 seconds
Family members of AIO or family members of the president?
2:34
2 minutes, 34 seconds
Uh I'm not um I'm not sure. I'm happy to take that on notice.
2:38
2 minutes, 38 seconds
All right. Um do you know if President Herzog brought is members of the Israeli security
2:47
2 minutes, 47 seconds
agencies, Mossad, with him? Uh I understand he had some people with him but I am not sure um who who they were
2:55
2 minutes, 55 seconds
employed by. I would need to take that on notice.
2:58
2 minutes, 58 seconds
Um I mean deputy director general I'm sure that AIO
3:05
3 minutes, 5 seconds
would know and would want to know whether or not members of a foreign intelligence agencies have been invited into your building in CRA. That would be
3:15
3 minutes, 15 seconds
an essential security step that Asia would take. I assume director general or deputy uh senator uh I think as uh the director
3:24
3 minutes, 24 seconds
general's previously said in this forum uh Azio has uh relations with uh with many many uh partners including foreign
3:32
3 minutes, 32 seconds
intelligence agencies uh the nature and and substance of those uh engagements are overseen by the inspector general of
3:40
3 minutes, 40 seconds
intelligence and security pounds of k into a royal commission uh but they're not something that we would discuss in any detail. in a forum such as this?
3:49
3 minutes, 49 seconds
Well, um my question is fairly simple.
3:52
3 minutes, 52 seconds
Did President Herzog come to an AIO building with members of MOSAD?
4:02
4 minutes, 2 seconds
Senator, as I've said, we would not discuss details of our engagements with foreign uh intelligence partners in this
4:09
4 minutes, 9 seconds
forum. It was publicly disclosed that President Herzog
4:17
4 minutes, 17 seconds
came to I think at the invitation of the AIO director general came to AIO's CRA
4:26
4 minutes, 26 seconds
offices. The Ben Shiffley office um that's a matter of the public record isn't it deputy director?
4:32
4 minutes, 32 seconds
It is. Um, the question I'm asking in relation to that publicly disclosed
4:39
4 minutes, 39 seconds
visit by President Herzog to AIO's CRA offices, did members of Mossad come with President Herzog?
4:48
4 minutes, 48 seconds
I think Mr. Gilmore understands your question and he's answered it a couple of times and there is information that he's not at liberty to disclose.
4:56
4 minutes, 56 seconds
Um, do you agree that AIO would want to ensure they knew whether or not members
5:05
5 minutes, 5 seconds
of a foreign intelligence agency was visiting the Ben Shiffley building in CRA? You'd want to know that in advance?
5:12
5 minutes, 12 seconds
Uh, Senator, as a matter of security, we would want to know anyone who's visiting [clears throat] the Ben Chiffley building. Uh the details however of
5:21
5 minutes, 21 seconds
those arrangements would not be something that we would reveal in a public forum.
5:26
5 minutes, 26 seconds
Israel has been found to have had a backoor into Australia's
5:32
5 minutes, 32 seconds
battle management software for the ADF and at considerable public expense the
5:39
5 minutes, 39 seconds
ADF had to remove Israeli software from the Australian Defense Forces battle management systems.
5:47
5 minutes, 47 seconds
Do you consider in those circumstances um Israel to be a security threat to Australia given that history?
5:57
5 minutes, 57 seconds
Senator, we have uh partnerships with many many intelligence services around the world. Those arrangements are overseen by the inspector general of
6:05
6 minutes, 5 seconds
intelligence security uh and uh those uh arrangements are also u in terms of the partners with whom we engage uh are
6:13
6 minutes, 13 seconds
approved by government. Mosad used Australian passports
6:20
6 minutes, 20 seconds
to organize an a a kidnapping and an assassination in one of the Gulf States
6:28
6 minutes, 28 seconds
in gross breach of any of the rules that normally exist between friendly nations.
6:35
6 minutes, 35 seconds
In light of that, do you consider Israel's security agencies to be a risk to the Australian national interest?
6:44
6 minutes, 44 seconds
Senator, your question uh goes to uh security matters which I would not be prepared to discuss in a forum such as this.
6:55
6 minutes, 55 seconds
Were there any US officials present at the meeting between President
7:04
7 minutes, 4 seconds
Herzog and the director general of AIO in the Ben Chiffley building in CRA?
7:11
7 minutes, 11 seconds
Senator, I've said that we'd take that on notice and provide you with any information that we can.
7:17
7 minutes, 17 seconds
Um, what possible purpose could there be for the head of a foreign state?
7:28
7 minutes, 28 seconds
And I've I've told you some of the history. They put a back door into our battle management system. They used Australian passports in a in a
7:37
7 minutes, 37 seconds
kidnapping and an assassination um exercise in a in a third country in the Gulf States.
7:45
7 minutes, 45 seconds
What what possible reason there could there be for bringing the head of state of that country in to visit our national
7:52
7 minutes, 52 seconds
the director general of our principal national security agency inside the headquarters in our nation's
7:59
7 minutes, 59 seconds
capital? What possible rationale is there for that visit to occur? Deputy director general.
8:08
8 minutes, 8 seconds
Uh, Senator, I uh uh I think the question of our arrangements
8:17
8 minutes, 17 seconds
and partnerships with our security partners both domestically and globally when they go to the heart of the benefit
8:24
8 minutes, 24 seconds
of the intelligence that we gather to protect Australia and Australians from threat to their security is uh is
8:32
8 minutes, 32 seconds
something that is uh classified. It's not something that I'd be prepared to venture to this evening. This wasn't a security agency.
8:40
8 minutes, 40 seconds
This well perhaps Mossad was there as well. We we may or may not find out. I'm not talking about connections with a security agency.
8:50
8 minutes, 50 seconds
I'm talking about what on earth AIO was doing inviting a foreign head of state
8:57
8 minutes, 57 seconds
into AIO's principal office in the heart of our capital. What was the purpose of it?
9:05
9 minutes, 5 seconds
Senator, the president was a guest of the Australian government.
9:09
9 minutes, 9 seconds
Yes, but what on earth was he doing in the headquarters of our national spy agency?
9:17
9 minutes, 17 seconds
Senator Azio maintains relationships with many partners domestically and globally. uh the nature and the benefit
9:25
9 minutes, 25 seconds
of those relationships is not something I'd be prepared to uh dwell on in a or in fact go to in a forum.
9:32
9 minutes, 32 seconds
This isn't a this isn't MOSA. We're talking about the president, not a member of the security of of of Israel's security agencies or spy agencies.
9:43
9 minutes, 43 seconds
We're talking about the president of a foreign state, not our country, a foreign state.
9:51
9 minutes, 51 seconds
The public deserves an explanation for why our nation's principal spy agency was inviting a foreign head of state into the headquarters of our spy
9:59
9 minutes, 59 seconds
agencies and giving him a secret briefing. What what what was the purpose?
10:04
10 minutes, 4 seconds
Senator She know you've repeatedly asked that question and Mr. Gilmore has repeatedly explained the limit of what
10:12
10 minutes, 12 seconds
he can answer. I mean, you can keep asking the same question, but you'll get the same answer.
10:17
10 minutes, 17 seconds
Mr. Mr. Gilmer, you answer by saying you won't disclose um arrangements with other security agencies, which is a non-answer to my question. I'm asking you why a foreign head of state.
10:30
10 minutes, 30 seconds
Who is a guest of the Australian government? Senator, is that AIO policy to invite guests of the Australian government into AIO headquarters?
10:40
10 minutes, 40 seconds
uh AIO policy in terms of who's invited or not invited doesn't specifically go to individuals.
10:49
10 minutes, 49 seconds
The the the um senior Chinese government officials are often here as guests of
10:56
10 minutes, 56 seconds
the Australian government. Do they get an invite into AIO?
11:00
11 minutes
Senator, that's not something I'd be prepared to publicly disclose. Who is invited into AIO? the screening processes uh for that those visits and how their those visits are managed.
11:11
11 minutes, 11 seconds
Which other head of state of any country on the entire planet apart from
11:18
11 minutes, 18 seconds
President Herzog of Israel has had an invitation
11:24
11 minutes, 24 seconds
to go to Australia's principal spy agency's [clears throat] office in the capital? Which other head of state?
11:34
11 minutes, 34 seconds
Senator Ram, I'm unaware of uh over the passage of time which other heads of state may have been invited uh to visit Asia headquarters.
11:43
11 minutes, 43 seconds
Well, so far as you can recall, there has never happened before, has it? So far as you can recall,
11:50
11 minutes, 50 seconds
in my recollection, Senator, that's correct. So what was it about President Herzog
11:58
11 minutes, 58 seconds
and the relationship potentially between um AIO and President Herzog
12:06
12 minutes, 6 seconds
that created this extraordinary precedent.
12:12
12 minutes, 12 seconds
Senator the president was visiting Australia as a guest of the government.
12:17
12 minutes, 17 seconds
We have strong relationships with intelligence and security agencies globally and partners uh which we rely on to keep Australians safe.
12:28
12 minutes, 28 seconds
The detail of the reasoning behind specific invitations is not something I would be prepared to venture to in a public forum.
12:35
12 minutes, 35 seconds
Um was the minister informed about the invitation?
12:43
12 minutes, 43 seconds
Uh Senator, I'm unaware. Uh, I would need to take that on notice.